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Iteresting info.
I must wonder just how accurate these claims are, just as I have to laugh about the Sudbury Ontario description of doom & gloom. I have relatives that live in northern Ontario. When I was a child, we used to travel through the Sudbury area to visit these relatives. This was over 35 years ago! The place was barren and devoid of any vegetation for over 100 miles before you reached Sudbury. The rocky terrain was black as a result of the then terrible sulfur dioxide emissions.
As an Adult, I still travel through that area once a year to visit my relatives. Most recently August 2006. The area is now overgrown with grass and trees, looking totally different and much more healthy than during my childhood.
To claim that Sudbury is still a plaque factory is totally inaccurate and has me wondering how much of the rest of the story is artificially glamourized. Even so, it still makes for interesting reading!
The safest way to run without harming the rear diff is to install just the rear outer CV joints without the axles and balls. This holds your rear wheel bearings and hubs together, but doesn’t spin the rear diff internals. If you are not running ABS, then the small Mk1 or Mk2 front CVJs will fit the rear of the syncro, saving you having to dismantle your syncro rear axles.
Nelson,
Where are you located in Canada?I have a used Golf Syncro fuel tank for you.
I can also fix you up with a prop shaft. I am equipped to rebuild the syncro prop shafts, including shortening, re-tubing, & balancing.
The parts you refer to are not the weak point in the syncro system. The main weak points are the angle drive, the rear diff bevel gears, and the rear diff spragg clutch(freewheel clutch). These are the parts that most commonly fail with high HP. Installing Front And Rear Peloquin LSD diffs will only increase the stress on the above mentioned parts, causing more frequent breakage.
I found some interesting reading on VWVortex. I’m posting the links here as a reference for future use.
Dis-assembling a syncro rear diff:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2733750
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2645727Broken Syncro rear diff Spragg Clutch:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=3122615VW Motorsports Modded rear diff info:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2742541A discussion about bad Haldex rear diffs.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3094467For much more detailed info on Haldex, you should check the VWVortex forums. (sorry if I’m plugging another forum, but it is syncro related[^])
They have been discussing Syncro to Haldex conversions as well as a controller that actually works without the complicated Haldex sensors, wiring and computer. there is even a video of an Audi TT at the drags with the controller installed.The Syncro/4motion/Quattro Forum can be found here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=742The 3 cars referenced above with approx 450hp on a VR6 syncro system are definitely interesting. I’ve read about them before. My question is, are they willing to talk about how many parts they have broken? Is their car driven competitively? Dyno sheets are great, so are photos, but how often is the car in the shop having an angle drive or rear diff replaced? This is the dark side of high HP Syncros that few people write about. The internet is full of people who like to bragg about great achievements. Broken parts are not something most people bragg about openly.
Every well known VW custom shop that has initially tried a high HP syncro set-up has moved on to other projects. The main reason being that the system just can’t support the power. If the syncro system was capable of reliably handling high HP, it would still be a popular system among the big builders.
To enjoy a reliable Syncro equipped VW, you must recognise and respect your car’s limitations. Exceed the limits and you have a broken car. What do you want, a car to drive, or a car to fix? For me, the ultimate reward to building a modified VW is spending more time driving it than I spent building it.
(I guess I’ll have my Red Wagon for ever! [
][:p])The Rallye & VR6 transmissions are essentially the same internally. They are strong enough to take 300-350hp, but 500hp will be too much on a stock gearbox. Even with Quaiffe internals, I think 500hp will be exceeding the limits.
The angle drive on a Golf Rallye contains gears with a ration of 20/21, the VR6 angle drive contains gears with ratios of 16/21. It is rumoured that the VR6 angle drive will handle more power, but I have my doubts. The angle drive housing on the VR6 is aluminum and most Rallye have an Iron housing. This makes the Rallye housing a bit stronger, but heavier.
Another issue regarding the angle drive ratios is the tooth contact area. The 20/21 ratio uses gears of near identical size which provides for the most tooth engagement (contact area, or number of engaged teeth) The 16/21 ratio employs one gear that is smaller than the other which reduces the contact area due to the smaller gear. This reduced contact area means that for a given amount of power applied, the force per square inch of gear tooth contact surface will be higher for the 16/21 ratio than the 20/21 ratio. This higher force can increase wear and stress on the parts, possibly resulting in easier breakage.
We have not heard much regarding VR6 syncro parts breakage simply because fewer VR6 syncros were built & sold. The 4 cyl Golf Rallye uses the same Gearbox, Angle Drive and Rear diff as the Passat G60 syncro. These syncros were produced in much higher quantities, so we see more of them being modified, and therefore broken. One can easily see how VR6 parts would be rumoured to be better just because we hear of less parts breakage.
My opinion is that the 4 cyl Cable shift gearbox, Angle drive, and rear diff parts are just as strong as the VR6 parts. They are good for 300hp if driven reasonably, and if a failure does occur, the 4 cyl parts are easier to find.
Here is some interesting info that shows some of VWs mods for the VWMS competition Rallye. http://dutchdub.com/images/Forumpics/GolfRallyeGRA.pdf
If you look through the photos, you will notice that they used bigger rear diffs and custom angle drives. The bigger rear diffs are from a Sharan Syncro. These diffs bolt up to the Haldex bracket produced by dutchdub. The Sharan uses a 17/27 angle drive, so the 20/21 or 16/21 angle drive won’t work. Apparently there is a 17/27 angle drive from a SEAT that will fit the cable shift Rallye gearbox, permitting the haldex or Sharan rear to be used.
There are many people who have Syncros with 350hp or more. Some have gone over 500hp. The Syncro system will break with this HP. Many people have tried modifying the syncro system to handle more HP, but something else will break next. The money you spend to make a syncro system stronger will exceed the money you spend to convert to Haldex.
go to http://www.vwvortex.com and look through the syncro forum. You will find many people with broken syncro rear diffs and angle drives. They have all asked the same questions as you, and found the same answers. A syncro system will not handle more than 300hp without some breakage. Even with 160hp, a stock G60 Syncro can break parts if subjected to regular DRAG racing stress.With all good intentions, come all the obstacles that prevent one from acomplishing those intentions!
All the great syncro gurus appear to have extra difficulty with this issue! (pun intended[])I already have all the Syncro boot floor sheetmetal new from VW. I’m just missing the crossmember. If you don’t sell the complete boot floor locally, would you be willing to cut the crossmember from the floor and ship it across the pond to Canada? I am not in a rush, so you can get back to me at your convenience.
Do you still have the rear diff crossmember from the rusty 5 door? Crossmember is welded into the boot floor.
Try googling Biagini-Passo
Here is one site of interest:
http://www.faltdach.net/vwgolfbiaginipasso.htm
