LD50’s syncro… attempt #2, now #3 – It moves ;)

[ld50]

thanks that’s very useful and sounds very promising too!

There basically seem to be 3 wires in play for the fuel pump + sender… a red, a brown and a violet/black. The brown went to earth, the red went to one of the bigger holes in the plug which as you say is empty on the syncro. The fuel level sender wire was either a different colour ont he synro or in a different place but I haven’t established that for sure yet.

Were you able to put the fuel pump relay in the same place as on the gti so it does the correct startup sequence… run a sec, then pause till ignition etc? Any details you can give in this area are welcome so I can cross-check the info I have.

I don’t have the green haynes manual – mine’s red so if you’ve got scans please either post them or email me at ld50@vwsyncro.co.uk and that would be much appreciated

I’m also merging from an 87 gti (kjet) into an 89 syncro so hopefully our experiences will be very similar. I’ve already got a working lift-pump mashup in place so hopefully that side of it should be no problem at least.

[ld50]

Ok – finally gone through and processed the pics from work last weekend. Comments are added in the pics.

http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk/?arc=syncro_fuel_pump_wiring&page=1&size=3&tpxbasketid=&search=&sortby=filename&sortbydir=asc&cols=4&cmd=do_search&i=0&big=0&gotourl=&p=9.Photos_LD50%2F_&basket_params=&basket_params_index=&noflash=&video_or_image=

On reflection actually at the fusebox end the wires all look to be the right colours, I wonder if i’ve messed with the wiring at the fuel-pump end though. Further investigation is needed.

It looks like basically what I need to know is:

1) which relay is for the fuel pump and where it should go
2) whether the violet/black cable in the syncro fusebox is actually the correct pin for the level sender
3) what the hell’s going on at the fuel-pump end with the lift-pump wiring.
4) “If you get a proper automotive connector remover tool” << any ideas on what/where to get one?

Ideally I reckon I’ll try and plumb in the gti wires alongside the regular loom so that the wiring is all OEM apart from the last bit for the lift-pump. Then I *think* we should be good to go which would be awesome!

[ld50]

hmm studying the diagrams and pics a bit more I think I need to take the blue relay “67” from the first pic and put it in the place of the relay marked “1” in the second pic.

[alexisblades]

Yes, relay ’67’ should go into the place where relay ‘1’ is on your second pic. The fusebox internals are all the same internally I believe, with just the plugs’ pinouts and relays/relay positions differing according to spec.

From memory, the purple/black is indeed the fuel level sender wire (I will have to have a look tomorrow for the haynes as I’ve left it at work).

Not all the fuel pump relays ‘prime’. Some also contain a fuel-cut rev-limiter (mine, no. 62, has no prime and has a rev limiter). There is a good thread about FPRs on cgti, with relay numbers.

The tools, for the connectors with round pins a set of these:

http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/info_TT99.html

[ld50]

thanks for that link alexisblades – have ordered, hopefully here for the weekend. Thanks for the relay info too. Hopefully the relay there will be ideal since it’s from the exact same setup as I’m installing in the syncro. It primes but never got to find out whether it had an rpm limiter so don’t see that as a huge problem. Will have to take it steady with the syncro anyhow since it’s still on a rod-shift box atm.

So basically it looks like I’ve oly really got to confirm whether the fuel level sender on my syncro is in fact the violet/black wire as it looks like it should be in the fusebox, and figure out what the hell has gone on at the fuel-pump end. I might even re-make the lift-pump thing with more OEM-style wiring if appropriate.

[ld50]

Ok well the gti is now stripped bare and booked in for collection. Need to take a pic as it goes really but there’s really just a rolling shell left. All the wiring and bits and bobs are out and packed into a trailer and the syncro’s been moved into the main working position under the car port so I can get back to work on it in earnest o/

I’d planned to work on the two side-by-side so I could compare notes but really the fuel system thing seems to be just a question of 3 wires and a relay and there wasn’t really much left of the gti to compare with. Looking forward to getting back on with the syncro!

[ld50]

Only minor update but still – progress

The GTI got picked up and now there’s acres of spare drivespace – great for working on the other golfs. Last weekend I installed the wiring and relay for the in-tank pump and whatnot, and cleared up the wiring confusion at that end too. Turns out I need to rebuild the lift pump again but this time with a gti (3-pin) cap/lid on it rather than the 2-pin one to fit the syncro loom. That way it should all stay oem and no bodgery at all.

Then will need to drop the fuel tank down and figure out the path for the fuel hoses to and from the lift pump. Still seems like lots of tiny little steps but it feels good to actually be making progress on the syncro again so am still pretty happy. Got lots going on in my life still atm so not getting oodels of time to work on it but grabbing a few hours here and there where I can. Looking forward to getting this puppy running at last!!

[ld50]

got the fuel lift pump re-built last weekend to use the gti tank-fitting, so the gti wiring stays all nice and OEM. Had to do a bit of destructive editing of the syncro pump but seems solid enough afterwards so hopefully all good.

full sized pics here: http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk/?arc=GTI_to_syncro_fuel_pump_rebuild&page=1&size=3&tpxbasketid=&search=&sortby=filename&sortbydir=asc&cols=3&cmd=show_item&i=0&big=0&gotourl=&p=9.Photos_LD50%2F_&basket_params=&basket_params_index=&noflash=&video_or_image=#nextButton

[ld50]

yay finally got some timeto work on the syncro today! fuel tank off so I can start to figure how to connect up the fuel pump and associated pipework. Seems to already have the mounting bolts for the pump in place which is a bonus o/

[ld50]

So, at long last I got to do a bit more on the syncro today o/ (2 years on haha)

It’s only a bit and naturally december is THE best time to embark on car tinkering (outside) but hey, I’ll take what I can get

Status seems to be that pretty much everything but the fuelling is in, fuel (lift) pump is wired in and hummed (at last check), though it didn’t shut off like it should, though there was no fuel in so I guess it would never get to pressure and hence stop, so that might be not as much of a problem as it appears. There are a *lot* of loose wires too.

Pressure pump and the related hoses is what I’m trying to figure currently. Inspired by Roadkill on youtube I’m not worrying about laying the new fuel lines properly for the moment, currently they’re going round the outside of the carwhich is fine for testing

Today was basically trying to figure out where I was up to, finding the fuel lines, getting them hooked up to the metering head, and I dug out the fuel (pressure) pump from my old 16v and a bit of potentially useful related gubbins from the trailer too.

There’s potentially a plan forming for this car, I just need to get it running.

I now also have pretty much the ideal car to tow the syncro on a trailer if needed so it wouldn’t necessarily even need to stay road legal

[ld50]

today was finding & fitting injectors and hooking up the lines to the metering head. That end is actually looking relatively complete now I think.

Next task seems to be to figure out which of the fuel pressure pumps works best (or at all) and see about connecting up that end.

I think I’m going to be using a bucket as my “test fuel cell” to save me having to muck about with the real fuel tank (which is not in the car atm anyway).

I should have all the fuel lines I need since i pulled everything off my old KR gti before I scrapped it, but I don’t really have any clue how it goes together so it’s going to be a case of trial and error, and see where the petrol squirts out when I switch it on

Fire extinguisher will be very close by

[Chris S]

Welcome back to the Wonderful “World of Syncro” []

[ld50]

o/ glad to be getting oily again, pissing rain an’ all

[ld50]

pretty decent progress today.

Basically I was able to test-fit the whole fuel system, which I think I now have all the bits for. This was with tank and pump outside the car but all connected up as it should be.

I’m still missing a few small fuel hose clips to lock everything in place properly for use under pressure, but basically it all fitted together and looked sorta like it should, albeit a couple of feet displaced from where it’s all supposed to sit.

I did actually put a battery in to see what happened and both fuel pumps started whirring as soon as the battery was connected. Nothing happens/changes when I turn the key though so the electrical side of things still needs a bit of work, but at least it sounds like the pumps work.

The plan is to get the pipework all nice and solid and then get a friend over who was the person who switched the engine loom from GU to KR, so hopefully he’ll have more of an idea what’s going on with the electrics (i have 0% clue there). That *may* be all that’s standing between me and the engine running though, which is really quite exciting!

The syncro might actually live again o/

*and see how quickly I get the bodywork finished once she runs hehe.. motivation factor 100000%

[ld50]

SO I was gonna see about getting a friend to help with the wiring but I suspect he’s got his hands full atm, so reckon I probably just need to figure the wiring out myself. Haynes manual has been located and I hope all the wiring diags I need are in the back…aren’t they pretty much? or do I need other references? this is a GU body+wiring with KR engine loom so hoping it should be covered.

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