Hi guys, latest owner of a syncro…

[rit]

Hi all, I’m a keen VW fan, it all started with a GTI MK2 1985 model – my only grudge being that some daft **** had stuck the mirrors half way down the window :p

Then I progressed onto a MK 4 GTI 1.8T chipped and modded, not many things could keep up with me in that…or so I thought, I got owned by some white chap with a massive afro driving an old renault clio, I later found out he had dropped a 1.8 16v turbo engine into the little bean can. Which got me thinking…

I never even knew a 4×4 MK2 existed until I read the MK2 Haynes Manual, a quick search on ebay later and I picked up a taxed and tested Syncro for £340. A bargain. I then went to collect it, and was dismayed to find it was in a terrible condition, the doors are rotton, the floor pan needs a bit of work (not rusted all the way thru thankfully) and the engine had a slight oil leak from the rocker.

After a 130 mile back in 4th gear – the waterbottle had dropped down onto the gear mechanism and was preventing it from going into fourth, this coupled with the fact that someone had put a gearstick on it from an earlier golf which on displayed four gears made me think someone had put a 4 speed box in to it…but I only found this out after 130 miles back at 6000revs in 4 gear – all the way back. (Yes I felt stupid).

Anyway, I’ve got this mostly rotton syncro which I intend to strip down, sand blast, rebuild, drop a 1.8T engine into, and if possible the dash/seats from a mk 4. Essentially I want a Mk4 but in a Mk2.

[toomanyprojects]

Nice work, sounds like you have a load of work even before you start the conversion! I am nearing the end of a vr6 syncro conversion and i hope you have deep pockets!

[no such user]

quote:

---

drop a 1.8T engine into

---

Yeah, it’s that easy – it’ll just ‘drop’ in.

Think carefully about what you want to do and go into it with your eyes open, knowing you’re going to need a heap of genuinely rare and unusual parts to create something that will work well and be reliable.

[Chris S]

But Dont worry we can usually find them for you somewhere or other!

[rit]

I am not the technical man thankfully, got a chap to do all that, however on some closer inspection I have decided to go for a 1.8 16v conversion. I came upon a wonderful 3 door 16v gti the other day – the chaps mate had worked for audi and no expense has been spared. Plus the windowscreen is a golf rally windowscreen, im pretty damn sure about it

So the plan is now to put the syncro drive train into this little beast…

[re2]

you will have to make sure that the block has all the necessary bolt holes to use a 16v with a syncro. Im sure its covered somewhere and i think it has to do with bolting the transfer box onto it. Also a syncro gearbox wont favour a 16v engine characteristics without some internal fiddling

[Chris S]

I dont want to rain on your parade, but you are going you are going to have to change the rear floor pan to fit the syncro rear axle into your 16 valve shell.

And if you dont want the exhaust hitting the road every time you go over a bump you will need to weld in the higher transmission tunnel from the Syncro as well.

This is what you need to cut out from the Syncro shell

Stand the 2 cars next to each other & compare the depth in the boot notice how the Syncro boot floor is 2 inches or so higher than the 2wd version, that extra clearance is needed for the 4wd rear axle to live under there.

As re2 says the 16V motor is missing a transfer box mounting, and the motor characteristics (poor low down power & everything at the top end) doesn’t really get the best from the Syncro system.

Photos of a modded 16V block to make the top transfer box mounting

[no such user]

erm 16v not suitable engine for syncro ??? 16v is not an easy engine to fit to a syncro !! but it works very well thank you.
the 8v only feels like it has more low end grunt but the 16v actually has more and as the revs rise it just pulls harder right up to the limiter.

tho the Kr is not an ideal engine to start with because of the whole block and bolt hole issue. 6A,9A engines have the bolt hole but the bubble in the block means one of the webs needs grinding to allow the gearbox to fit. the ABF has the upper bolt hole but not the lower one however that can be got round with bracket mods

[no such user]

Having worked through the mill of the ABF conversion with DannyP and driven the ABFed Syncro (vs my 8V 2.0 crossflow) I have got to atest to the ’16V not being suitable for the Syncro’ as being a complete myth.

It’s possible to hook up the transfer bracket to the ABF block without too much work and it will retain the transfer box better than a standard bracket. You will also need to fabricate a tubular manifold and look at moving the shifter into the interior of the car – hardly rocket science.

The power delivery of the ABF is strong and linear and it is my feeling (having driven this pair of very similar cars) that it is THE one to go for in a ‘driver’s car’, especially over an 8V of whatever flavour.

The increased power delivery over a larger rev-range means that you can make greater use of the traction and handling characteristics of the Syncro (properly set up). The only question is how will the extra weight of the ABF affect the handling?

At the end of the day for Danny and I it’s all about the driving. The biggest test will come on Friday, when both cars are on track at Castle Combe.

Starting from a KR motor is somewhat retrograde when ABF motors are available for well under £500 from a Toledo, which gives you the motor, the loom, the cable-change mech (shifter end), a set of 280mm front brakes, correct weight and height rated-springs, the cable-change clutch mechanism and cable, the NS driveshaft, the powersteering lines, the washer fluid bottle, the rad-fans and a host of other nice, better-than Golf2 parts. I wouldn’t be surprised if the air-con could even be fitted (although that’s a lot of extra weight) – The Toledo is largely a Golf2 shell.

[re2]

i was thinking more of the KR and not the ABF. Also the recognised opinion that a 16v and 8v GTIs are geared differently to match the engine characteristics, plus a syncro gearbox is more akin to diesel ratios thus beter equipped for tourque and not the revvier 16v. Having never done either into a syncro im just going on what i seen on here and elsewhere. A 2l 16v would have more tourque so thats why it may work better

[no such user]

quote:

---

plus a syncro gearbox is more akin to diesel ratios

---

What about the Passat Syncro/Rallye gearboxes as being run on both these Syncros?

Possibly different ratios.

[no such user]

the overall ratios in a syncro gearbox are very similar to that of a gti, uses diesel gears but with a different final drive ratio, the differences in gearing between 8 and 16v boxes is 5th is a lower ratio in 16v to give it a higher top speed, as the 16v develops more torque at higher rpm’s

[ld50]

My syncro project is a 16v into syncro and it’s been a bit of a hadache but the results look/sound promising but “a little bit complex” doesn’t really come close to describing it….(and that’s starting with a syncro shell!).

In any case there’s a LOT of reading, digging and welding to do…

[Trev16v]

I plan to put a KR into my G60 Syncro. If I were starting from scratch then I know an ABF would be a better choice for the reasons above, but the problem is that long before I knew I was going to own a Syncro I built my 16V G60 engine using a KR overbored to 1.9, using JE low compression pistons; and I’d rather just drop this engine in than go into the expense of rebuilding with another block. To get around the missing bolt hole problem I was planning to make a beefy bracket that links between the transfer box bracket and rear engine mount bracket. Aside from this and the obvious need to make a custom manifold, I hope that the KR will present no other major issues.

[ld50]

I’ve been wondering about the feasibilty of a bracket, possibly an extension of the syncro transfer box bracket anchored by the engine mount. They (kr) seem to have become my motor of choice and I have no complaints of them other than the missing bolt-hole.

Ideally I’d like a KR like from my 16v in the syncro…but the g60 block+16v head was not the easiest furrow to plough and I’m not sure how far I’d trust the 8v/16v alternator mishmash..kr+brakets sounds like a plan.

[Author]

Posts