thenavigatorhi guys,
I have a ’91 Golf Mk2 Syncro – don’t really know how to explain the scenario effectively, but basically i parked my car normally, leaving the gear in neutral and applied the handbrake. Didnt drive it for a good 3-4 days, but when I tried driving it after 3-4 days, I released the handbrake, but the rear wheels were still stuck (somehow it seems it was the offside only), and the car just wouldn’t move.
this has happened before as well, when I don’t drive it for a long time, but a little power and the car moves off then. But this time, it just wouldn’t move. I got out, tried pushing the car in both directions, front and back but no luck. Got really irritated and gave more power to the engine to move off and it finally did, but a big bang sound was heard. That’s when i thought, this was probably a stupid way to make the car move. I then drove the car normally, and it was fine, everything worked ok until today, when I was driving and just as I applied the brake, another loud bang was heard, as if something just dropped.
Got out, tried to look around, but it was nothing. However this time when I drove off, the brakes wouldn’t work properly. The pedal would travel all the way, and the car was taking forever to stop. It seems like only the front brakes were working. Also, the travel in the hand brake had increased drastically.
I took the car to the garage today, as I don’t know much about cars myself. They just said we’ll charge you 3-4 hours labour as we don’t know what the problem is, and once we have opened up everything, its best if you replace everything on such a old car. The list of parts they gave me included drums and bearings and possibly handbrake cable.
I really don’t know what to do! Pretty sure the garage was ripping me off!
Please can you guys give some guidance? Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
Chris SThe probem you describe when you parked your car & didnt drive it for a good 3-4 days, but when you released the handbrake the rear wheels were still stuck, possibly it was the offside only, and the car just wouldn’t move,
this is the handbrake sticking on, this can have a variety of causes, the usual one being that the internal h/brake mech is slightly siezed up, in that when it is on overnight it doesnt have the time to seize, but give it a couple of days & it will sit locked on like it has been welded, the bang you heard on driving off was the mech suddenly freeing off.
From what you describe as the latest problem I would think that the internal adjuster mechanism and/or the shoe steady/locating springs are broken,
I would suggest you need at least to replace the handbrake cables
as if they have not been replaced by now (19 years) then they will be well worn & rusty and will not be helping very much, they should be replaced as a pair, if you only replace one of them the extra stress placed on the remaining one usually breaks it within days.
The handbrake cables are no longer available at your UK VW dealers, but I can get you a pair over here
It will also not be a bad idea to replace the brake shoes, & parts of the internal adjuster mechanism & shoe steady/locating spring sets,
As for the brake drums they will probably be ok or may possibly need a light skimming to remove the rust ring.
Your wheel bearings should also be fine, I can tell from what your garage said that they have never worked on a Syncro before, as what they said about the wheel bearings is more applicable to a 2WD Golf.
Whereabouts are you? as someone on here may be able to help.
thenavigatorthanks a lot for your help and prompt response Chris S.
I am based in London and didn’t know anyone as such who I could show my car to. Any guidance on how I should go on from here would really help me out!
Just out of curiosity, if the handbrake mechanism seizes slightly and the car won’t move, what should a person do?
Thank you for your kind offer about the handbrake cables…please let me know more details.
thanks a lot.
Chris SWe have a few members in and around london, maybe one of them would like to help?
The hand brake cables are available here
http://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.de/bestand/bestand_int.pl
enter 191609721C in the box Teilenummer
it will come up as bremszug @ 36 euro + postage [
]
Audi DoodyHi as much as I agree with Chris, can I make another suggestion?
It is not unknown for the shoes/pads to stick to the drums/discs (something to do with the material in the shoes/pads I think)
So dispite the handbrake mech releasing the shoes stay in contact with the drums.
I had a mate many years ago with the same problem, as you said there was a loud bang and the car moved ok but there was poor braking.
on inspection, one of the shoe had become disengaged at the pivot end and when he braked it just moved the shoe and put no pressure on the drum.
The fronts still worked but the rear prevented the pressure building up to the normal level.
If you can find someone to have a quick look first before going to a garage, you might save a few quid as Chris said.
BTW I’ve had a pad stick so well that when it released the wheel only turned half a turn then locked. on inspection half the pad material was still in the caliper and the other half was stuck on the disc. It took a hammer and chisel to get it off…..
I’ve also been told that if there is damp between the shoe/pad and the drum/disc the metal in the shoe/pad can rust onto the drum/disc, on disc’s this can happen on the side of the car subject to the prevaling rain where it is parked. hardly ever happens to cars parked in garage’s
mike
thenavigatorthanks Audi Doody for your input and suggestion
86 SyncroThis issue is very common with drum brakes. I’ve even seen this happen to newer (2-3 years old) cars that have been parked for a length of time.
Mine does this also, sometimes only after being parked overnight when it’s raining. A little shove and she’s off again, and I had no problems with my last inspection as far as the brake test was concerned, so I assume they’re fine. Just the old girl showing her age again.
thenavigatorHi guys, as per Chris’s suggestion, i’ve been looking to order the following parts: brake shoes, & parts of the internal adjuster mechanism & shoe steady/locating spring sets.
Have successfully found the brake shoes and handbrake cables (x2), but having difficulty understanding what part the internal adjuster mechanism and shoe steady/locating spring sets are.
I’ve have been using the website the following website to help identify the parts. Could someone please guide me on the above parts using the diagram in the website?
Have been recommended a mechanic who is willing to help out as long as i can order the parts, so hopefully my Golf should be back on the road soon!
Thanks a lot in advance for all the help!
Chris SAs well as handbrake cables & brake shoes
you will need the shoe steady sets (you will need 4 sets 1 for each brake shoe)
14 – VW part nr 431 609 579 — spring pin (29mm)
15 – VW part nr 171 609 583A – pressure spring
18 – VW part nr 171 609 709 — spring disc
You may be able to get a 29mm brake shoe steady kit at a car accessorie type shop
you will also need
16 – VW part nr – 171 609 705 — wedge adjuster – 2 of
17 – VW part nr – 357 609 707B – spring – 2 of
19 – VW part nr – 191 609 711 — spring – left upper & 191 609 712 spring – right upper
20 – VW part nr – 431 609 715 — spring – 2 of
21 – VW part nr – 171 609 717 — spring lower – 2 of
& possibly pushrod nr 24 p/n 191 609 819 left & p/n 191 609 820 right
thenavigatorSo tried ordering the parts from euro car parts and other companies, but everyone just seemed to stock the brake shoes, and not the smaller parts. So tried the VW dealer, and they did have all the small parts in stock. However, the parts advisor suggested I buy the full brake shoe kit, which comes with all the necessary parts. There were two kits, one for cars with a brake pressure regulator (£80 + VAT) and one for cars without (£30 + VAT). I ordered both and the parts are expected to arrive tomorrow morning. He said you can order both, and return any one you don’t use, so that was good.
Would any one be able to tell me if my 1991 Syncro has a brake pressure regulator?
I’ve been told by the parts advisor that I should be able to just find out by looking under the car (rear) and spot the regulator, but haven’t had a chance to view yet.
Anyway, the following parts are included in the brake shoe kit (might help someone in the future):
1H0 698 520X 1 set: brake shoes with linings VORMONTIERT (200×40)
repair set
brake shoe with pad and
wedge bearing (left)
brake shoe with pad and
wedge bearing (right)
brake shoe with lining and
brake lever (left)
brake shoe with lining and
brake lever (right)
357 609 819 Push rod left
357 609 820 Push rod right
171 609 705 wedge adjuster (x2)
171 609 715 tension spring (x2)
357 609 707A tension spring (x2)
357 609 711A tension spring left upper
357 609 712A tension spring right upper
171 609 717 tension spring lower
1H0 698 545B 1 set fastening parts for brake shoes (II)
Hopefully should have my Sycnro back on the road tomorrow!
Thanks a lot for all the help.
Chris Squote:
Originally posted by thenavigatorSo tried ordering the parts from euro car parts and other companies, but everyone just seemed to stock the brake shoes, and not the smaller parts.
So tried the VW dealer, and they did have all the small parts in stock. – So please just buy what I listed then please
However, the parts advisor suggested I buy the full brake shoe kit, which comes with all the necessary parts. There were two kits, one for cars with a brake pressure regulator (£80 + VAT) and one for cars without (£30 + VAT). I ordered both and the parts are expected to arrive tomorrow morning. He said you can order both, and return any one you don’t use, so that was good.
That was very good of him, as you will be returning almost everthing that the parts muppet recommended
Would any one be able to tell me if my 1991 Syncro has a brake pressure regulator?
Its 99% certain that you do have a brake regulator
I’ve been told by the parts advisor that I should be able to just find out by looking under the car (rear) and spot the regulator, but haven’t had a chance to view yet.
Anyway, the following parts are included in the brake shoe kit (might help someone in the future):
1H0 698 520X 1 set: brake shoes with linings VORMONTIERT (200×40) – Wont fit as your rear brakes are 230×40
repair set
brake shoe with pad and wedge bearing (left) – wont fitbrake shoe with pad and wedge bearing (right) – wont fit
brake shoe with lining and brake lever (left) – wont fit
brake shoe with lining and brake lever (right) – wont fit
357 609 819 Push rod left – wont fit
357 609 820 Push rod right – wont fit
171 609 705 wedge adjuster (x2) – will fit
171 609 715 tension spring (x2) – will fit
357 609 707A tension spring (x2) – wont fit
357 609 711A tension spring left upper – wont fit
357 609 712A tension spring right upper – wont fit
171 609 717 tension spring lower – will fit
1H0 698 545B 1 set fastening parts for brake shoes (II)
wont fit as the pins in this are 40mm long & yours are 29mmHopefully should have my Syncro back on the road tomorrow!
Sorry but not with these parts you wont!
thenavigatorYes I noticed that the part numbers were different to the ones you mentioned above, but the parts guy assured me that they would fit my car (even after telling him my vehicle details and the fact that it is a syncro). I’ll just return the parts and get those part numbers individually, as obviously the parts advisor gave me wrong information.
Audi DoodyWell the navigator,…Youv’e just learned the lesson that took us all a while to find out…..VAG dealers and parts guys in particular don’t have a clue about the Syncro and its variants. This site is unusual in that the people that offer their help and advice on here, do actually know what they are talking about.
Chris has forgotten more about syncro’s than the parts guys at VW could ever dream of.
Finding all those part no’s for you was not a 2 minute job, maybe that puts thing a bit more in perspective for you.
Stick with it… you never, know with help from guys on here you might end up doing more and more work on your car yourself.
mike
thenavigatorLike I said to Chris individually, I’ve learnt very much from this site and the people on the forum
I appreciate all the help Chris has given and the effort that was put in arranging those part numbers for me. It was an honest mistake I made trusting the dealers, and obviously I’ve learnt my lesson now. will definitely be ignoring what they say in future.
Anyway, ive returned both brake shoe kits, and just ordered the parts mentioned above, in those quantities.
Thanks a lot.
ld50> Chris has forgotten more about syncro’s than the parts guys at VW could ever dream of.
seconded