2.0 conversion – now runs.

Forums Reference Tuning & upgrades 2.0 conversion – now runs.

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  • #4243

    no such user
    Participant

    What a difference a day makes!

    Gearbox now on engine.

    Transfer box mounted to back of engine (found the right length M8s in my collection in the end).

    Engine timed up.

    Various bolts all over it have now been torqued up, including the cam sprocket.

    Rear mount is on.

    Found out the pressed steel mount from the rod-change gearbox that goes front to back on the gearbox doesn’t fit the cable-changer, so that won’t be being fitted.

    Found out the 2E rocker cover doesn’t fit, as it’s too high and the breather port is too far in.

    The rocker cover I got with the head does fit under the inlet manifold, but it doesn’t have the breather port on the cover (I remember seeing it fall off at Andy’s and thinking ‘I bet I’ll need that’). However, I have another steel rocker cover lying around with a suitable port in it, so I’ll be combining the two this weekend, I think.

    I’ve also fitted the distributor pipework, tried the crossflow waterpipe and also the ABF radiator – they appear to work! The only thing I did notice was that the radiator has circular indents to fix it in. The G2 has tabs that insert into the radiator – I would have thought a couple of doctored bolts should sort out the top mounting issue.

    So, only a few things to do (and bolts to find/come in at the dealer) and it’ll be ready to go into the engine bay.

    I also took delivery of a 30metre roll of heat wrap and some stainless clips. I figured I should check how to do the wrapping thing and found this handy topic:

    http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=140895

    Which I’ll praisee and add to when I’ve done mine.

    Next jobs I’m going to need to sort are swapping over to the 100mm inner CVs and then with a few bits added to the unit (like the sodding 50mm exhaust manifold studs) from VW the motor and transmission can be slung into the engine bay – when the downpipe and steering column boot are wrapped.

    Photos from last night and tonight are here:

    http://diamondhell.com/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,29/catid,35/

    Also many thanks to Matt Neck (known as Beavis) – he came round tonight and sorted out a GTI speedo head into the instrument cluster – many thanks for doing a job I wasn’t looking forward to! This is necessary as the new drive on the cable-change box is a different geared one to the original Syncro unit.

    #4270

    no such user
    Participant

    A few quick photos – engine and gearbox still being built up – almost there:

    P3160054a.jpg

    Downpipe wrapped to protect the rest of the car from the heat (it’s a bit tight in there):

    P3160059.jpg

    The proposed ‘oil cooler stack’ – oil to water cooler, then remote oil cooler take-off plate:

    P3160063.jpg

    #4328

    no such user
    Participant

    Big update, short post. Engine and ‘box now in car and being hooked up (gradually). Myriad small issues unearthed, which are being worked through bit by bit (with thanks to ChrisS and DannyP!

    Pictures from a big session today are here: http://diamondhell.com/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,29/page,inline/id,954/catid,38/limitstart,7/

    More in the next couple of days.

    #4333

    no such user
    Participant

    Good heavens, we got a lot done yesterday.

    DannyP came down and got right into the wiring. In the spirit of international collaboration that underlies vwsyncro.co.uk I then hooked up a webcam on my laptop (sitting on the strut top in the engine bay) and opened a Skype conversation, so Chris S could thrash out a few issues with Danny. Chris then pulled Pascal in over Skype, to help out with a couple of other issues.

    I did grab a couple of pictures, but it’s a reflection on the times that I was working in my workshop, with a guy I met through this website, with a couple of other people in another country helping out (with no call charges!). I think it’s bloody amazing and this is a great community, with some fantastic people in it.

    Many thanks to all for the help!

    Sadly we stopped just short of starting the car – at Midnight Danny and I called it a day, but there’s very little to do before the key gets turned to fire it up.

    Photos later.

    #4334

    Chris S
    Moderator

    Yes, We must have had the skype link open for at least 3 or 4 hours last night, and we made lots of progress, or rather you two did! [;)]

    #4335

    no such user
    Participant

    DannyandGolf.jpg

    #4348

    Trev16v
    Member

    Excellent thread. I’ve kept meaning to read through it for quite some time and, with some time to kill at work(!), finally I have.

    With regards to tight downpipe fitment issues on the RHD Syncro, I count myself so lucky for the fact that my Syncro is LHD, and I actually like it being LHD. It’s a good thing because eventually I’ll be putting a 16V into mine. Good work on how you’ve modified the tunnel.

    I’m a little bit sceptical about the idea of using the G60 injectors and expecting the lambda correction on the Bosch ECU to compensate properly. My understanding is that lambda correction can only have a certain amount of influence on the injector pulse width and ultimately AFR. If you change a large factor in the system, such as injector capacity, can you expect lambda control to fully compensate? I guess though you’ll solve this though by running a new map to suit the injectors. As ChrisS already said in a previous post, lambda correction only provides minor tweaking to achieve the optimum AFR.

    Out of interest – what’s the reason for not running the standard management on this engine? Sorry for asking this daft question but I don’t know much about the plans with the engine [:I]

    I also read on one of the pages about the possible need for a throttle position potentiometer. I’m not sure if you’ve solved this or not now but if you do need a proper TPS (a potentiometer, as opposed to switches) I devised a nice way to fit one onto a G60 TB, which may be a useful method for you to use on your TB perhaps.

    Pictures here:

    http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/16vg60/g60_tb_tps%20001.jpg
    http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/16vg60/g60_tb_tps%20002.jpg
    http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/16vg60/g60_tb_tps%20003.jpg

    I needed to do this for MegaSquirt on my 16V G60.

    May or may not be of any use but hopefully will be to someone out there [:)]

    The TPS is off some old Ford. Note that there is no play in the link mechanism, because the TPS itself is furtunately sprung-loaded.

    #4349

    Chris S
    Moderator

    As this originally started out as a Carburettor version syncro there was no motor management wiring, injectors or sensors/senders at all, it all had to be fitted from scratch.

    We have fitted a Golf 2 1800 8v GTI Euro management computer with lambda sonde(something the UK market Golf 2 never had), this computer has been rechipped & upgraded (remapped)to allow for the 2 litre(as opposed to 1.8 litre capacity) & larger injectors.

    The original 2E injectors start to run out of steam when approaching 150 bhp (which this engine should easily produce) hence the G60 ones which are good for up to about 200 bhp

    The motor management system is self learning to a degree and should cope with the fuelling better than the non lambda version.

    Because of the management used & the fact that TC wanted to use the 2E throttle butterly block he actually had to remove the std throttle pot meter and fit the earlier wot switches, this mod can easily be reversed.

    #4351

    no such user
    Participant

    trev16v :- for a 16v running megasquirt the easy option is the throttel body off a passat 16v it allready has a TPS inbuilt

    #4358

    Trev16v
    Member

    True. The problem for me though is that it’s a 16V G60 and I wanted to retain the G60 TB with its recirculation port.

    #4373

    no such user
    Participant

    Erk. That was a long session!

    Danny got here just after lunch and we piled into it. I’ve had a number of things that I wanted to get sorted, so had been fiddling through them slowly. The dashboard came back out and some of the wiring doen previously also came out, so we could try and get a nicer set up sorted.

    After lots of changing to and fro Danny eventually found a solution which means the car runs safely and sensibly – if the motor stops running the fuel pump shuts off too. This was important to me (rather than jerry-rigging the system) – if I have a big off at some point the last thing I want is fuel everywhere!

    So, when did it finally run? I think about 9ish, but it might have been a bit later. As this was the first fire-up it sounded like a bag of spanners, but with every start and test run up it sounded better and better. I’d screwed up on the dizzi timing (180 deg out) and the lift pump wiring was back to front, but once these were sorted it fired up relatively easily. The timing has currently been set by (Danny’s) ear and there’s quite a lot more to do putting things back together and ready for a first test run out.

    The Toledo in the front garden has been really helpful – it’s donated a couple of relay holders and wire, as well as it’s washer bottle and power steering fluid return hoses, which means the resevoir is tucked neatly away out of harm’s way. The hard-line return hose is also in a lot better condition than the original one!

    In the next session I need to finish off the top mounts for the radiator. I already drilled a new hole at the cambelt end, as G2s never had such a large radiator fitted. This was an 8mm hole, then punched into a nice recess with an M12 head bolt and then an M14 bolt

    The 8V leads were too big for the recesses on the head, so the motor is now running Bosch Super4 16V plugs, with leads to suit an Audi A3 1.6, on a 2E dizzi cap.

    Pictures of various parts (note descriptions under them in the gallery) are here, as ever:

    http://diamondhell.com/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,29/page,inline/id,973/catid,39/limitstart,2/

    Trev – I’ve been quite guided by Chris and Pascal on the spec for this motor. The more advanced (development, rather than ignition timing!) closed loop lambda system just seemed to make a lot more sense in terms of optimised mixture, rather than the open loop system run on standard G2s.

    My aim is to have something with a step up in power from the 90-100bhp my car was running before. I didn’t want to get over-complicated, or heavy. The 8V motor should ensure I have something that won’t monster through fuel too badly, while providing good fun out on the tracks and B-roads. It’s also key that if it does let go it won’t cost the earth to get back on the road. I’m happy with how things seem to be shaping up. I think I’ve got a lot to learn about this set up before I feel the need to install something pokier. The car also has a lot of development needed to get it really performing and effectively using what should have now.

    Thanks for the interest!

    #4374

    Chris S
    Moderator

    Here is a link to a video of when TC & Danny first got the motor to run, just watch as here they are both watching expectantly untill it fires up!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c&NR=1

    To be honest there are parts from all over the world built in to this motor, its a tribute to VW for making them all compatable as well as TC & Danny for having the patience to mechanically fit it all together & then contemplate the wiring for the management system, the general consensus over on this side of the channel is that when properly set up it will have nearer to 160 bhp than 150bhp at the flywheel which means about 135/140ish bhp at the wheels. [}:)] [8D] [:D]

    #4384

    no such user
    Participant

    Onwards into tidying up and ‘Snagging’. I still have a few daft things like the top mounts on the radiator to finish, so I managed to grab a couple of hours in the workshop last night. This saw one of the top mounts for the rad done, also a rather nice (if I say so myself) bracket for the accelerator cable, which bolts to the top of the inlet manifold. I also had to fit the fuseboard back up in place – note to self for Danny’s car additional relays etc cannot be fitted on the left most position on the fuseboard – there’s wiring in the way!

    After the battle with the fuseboard was won I fitted the dash back in the car, not before taking off the stalks – there’s only so many times 20 year old plastic can take being pressed down HARD and I don’t want to have to find a new set right now….. h’mmmmm, I wonder if the Toledo set will fit….

    #4390

    no such user
    Participant

    Some useful part numbers:

    4 pin housing used on fuel tank, for lift pump and fuel gauge and also on the gearbox to control the 4WD: 357 972 754

    Rubber grommets that go around the wire, to keep water out of the gearbox connector: 357 972 741

    Wiring tails which have the proper clips on them (one on each end of the tail) to suit the connector: 000 979 225

    That little lot will save me a fair bit of hassle!

    Also worthy of note:

    Seat Toledo ABF clutch cable for cable-change ‘box with cable clutch: 1L0721335G
    Tensioning bracket to hold the end of the cable outer: 357199356

    #4425

    no such user
    Participant

    Had a short first drive out in it this evening – nice and smooth and grunty. I wasn’t pushing too hard as it’s not been set up right yet and holes in pistons are neither big, nor clever.

    Only had one snag so far, which was the accelerator cable housing popping out of the hole in the bulkhead (it wasn’t seated properly). This left the engine revving at 2k, but there was a convenient place to pull over and sort it. It was at this point there were big clouds of smoke/steam from the heat wrap!

    Things still to do are setting the motor up properly, securing the wiring and hoses etc in the engine bay and ironing out any glitches that become apparent over this week.

    Now I’m getting finished with my car I just need to clear up the garage and get ready to do Danny’s car with him! Reassuringly I did check to see if they’ll both fit in the workshop and the answer is yes, with all of two foot to spare (in addition to the rear working area).

    [8D]

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